Brian Evans on Japanese Whiskey, Experimental Casks, and the Future of Selective Drinking

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back everybody to another fun edition of the Rolex Whiskey Passion Project.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Gentlemen, I have on today I met briefly in New York.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He knows a lot about Whiskey and I’m curious to pick his brain and hear the story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Without further ado, Brian, welcome to show my friend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don’t mind, tell everyone who you are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, yeah, my name’s Brian Evans.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I am the director of bars for Sunday Hospitality Group.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess more notably all the bars within the hotel, Chelsea.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I run cocktail programs, Spears Programming, and all the fun stuff in between, and all the hard stuff in between, too, I’m not gonna lie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now you got a lot on your hands there, I mean, it’s pretty wild.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, when did your whiskey journey start?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what did your whiskey journey look like?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know you do cocktails and spirits as well, but, you know, for you, when did the interest in this really get started?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’d like to say there’s a lot of check marks along the way and I had I had some catching up to do because I did not start drinking alcohol until I was 26 and not to not to date me, but this this is like what 2010 was was my first like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: intentional, um, sip of alcohol and, um, and, um, you know, from there, uh, 2000 and 10 is cocktail time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s cocktail here, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That it is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That it is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I am, but you know, I didn’t have any of the fancy stuff until like a couple years in when I got more involved into like the fine dining culture, uh, while I was living in Austin, Texas at the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, my, my first foray is that, you know, I don’t want to hear about the, the, the, the, the

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is post-college for me, but, you know, it’s probably 26, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But all those clubs and dive bars and everything, I feel like, you know, I just did the whiskey availability there was not the most polished, but, you know, Jamison was always my go-to, and I know that’s like a common story with a lot of people, but it was smooth, it was easy, and it wasn’t that much more expensive than what was on the will.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, I

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m gonna stop you there because, I mean, my prayer listeners have heard this story a million times, but honestly, like, I used to run restaurants and nightclubs and I didn’t understand the james and thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I literally thought it was just a shot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn’t realize they were actually like a real whiskey distilling company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, this is like for people that don’t drink tequila, like, that’s what they drink.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I had no idea.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then later I was somewhere and I saw these age statement james and I’m like, is this a different company?

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[SPEAKER_01]: like what’s going on here like they actually make whiskey whiskey like in my mind like they you know it’s kind of like oh yeah they’re huge I’m like oh wow I thought they were like a behind the bar shot

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I feel like they really, um, intelligently marketed, you know, several angles, but particularly those those ran bunches, like high volume bars, like, and they made an name for themselves even that and it’s great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think what, what, I think I, I use that as a jumping off point because, um, you know, the more I got involved in, like, finer dining and, like, beverage programming or just, you know, um, when I first sort of

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[SPEAKER_00]: 15, you know, I was introduced through the web of Janison and powers, you know, all those decillaries are, you know, all under one roof.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was introduced to Red Breast, and that was kind of like my first, like, sip of a ah-ha, like I’m enlightened by the flavor of this whiskey, and it’s just the way it just sits on my palate and I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I

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[SPEAKER_00]: I fell in love and, you know, from there on, trying, you know, the Middleton, the green spot of it all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that’s kind of, I think when I was enlightened to feel that whiskey was sort of like my, my companion, in terms of like just enjoying a spirit need.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now from then on, you know, I just became highly focused in cocktails and when it comes to cocktails,

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[SPEAKER_00]: RUM and Jin were usually the two things that I love to stay within.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was more obsessed with those classics, you know, with those two spirits, and then I felt deeply in love with RUM, and I use RUM as a kind of a fork in the road here in the conversation because my infatuation with RUM kind of led me into being introduced to some of the more

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[SPEAKER_00]: It shut out to, you know, Chris Bettner, buzz, oh yeah, yeah, it’s homey, he’s at homey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, that, them and then like the habitation, Bellier, bottleings of, you know, the hand in a state’s the heart of the world.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, four square and everything.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that, I feel like, um,

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[SPEAKER_00]: kind of introduced me to the more like longer-aged, more wild side of experience, you know, a lot of that stuff is cask strength and just stunning.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then very, it has this flavor wheel that just goes wild and in certain tertiary moments.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that’s kind of what introduced, but you got to understand, like I was mainly,

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[SPEAKER_00]: at my access is what I could afford and what I could afford through bar programs and you know I making cocktail menus from then on was kind of I had to hit a price point and so that was my access that was my my access I did invite it to like whiskey tastings and like whiskey dinners but nothing terribly extravagant

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[SPEAKER_00]: but rum was sort of the the the the happy space where you could spend you know not you wouldn’t break the banking get these extraordinary like vintage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I do those like summer oldies and those handins.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean obviously compared to whiskey they’re almost like free.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, gosh, yes, yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like similar can be said about Armin, yeah, you know, you know, you know, like when I took on a French bar program within the hotel Chelsea, you know, my access to, or my doors open to like the world of Armin, yeah, and I was just like, wow, this is like talk about value.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel bad paying this much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I need to give you more money for this quality product.

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[SPEAKER_00]: is kind of rare how they go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it’s 40 years old.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They’re like, oh, it’s $19 and you’re like, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: 19.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that’s it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what brought me back through whiskey, one of the bigger checkpoints for me was, you know, my first Japanese leaning or inspired bar program was at rule of thirds and green points in Brooklyn.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, of course, very cocktail focused and still is very cocktail heavy in terms of what people order there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, in Brooklyn versus Manhattan, I mean, Brooklyn, unless you’re like travel bar, not many people give the back bar a whole lot of time of day or curiosity.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a little bit of finesse, but like, you know, cocktails are our safe space there, but like, what’s the area?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Stop there, Jan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They’re not going to be like, hey, don’t.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Since you’d rank that, let me show you what else I have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I’ll be late.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But what it’s worth, we were very successful in getting people into show-choo.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And show-choo is like, I would say next to Whiskey is my favorite well-rounded category of just being able to talk about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But we’ve been able to successfully get show-choo in front of people, that are backbar only, getting them into it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, the price point on show-choo is like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Again, practically giving it away, like you’re talking like 12 bucks for two ounces is in a high ball and you’re like, what is this happy hour?

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[SPEAKER_00]: No, but, um, you know, that’s when I was introduced to, you know, the world of Cheechibu.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cheechibu, I think, was the thing that, you know, made me go, wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is in 2019 through 2020 when we were developing and opening the rule of thirds bar programming.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, that’s when I was first introduced to getting these allocations to Chichi Boo and just like, yeah, sure, let’s just try it out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, the first, the first like three expressions I tried beyond just, you know, each year was molten, grain, world blend, like there’s single cask expressions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, holy shit, like, I’m like, wow, I’m getting humble.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’m getting

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, tangerine peels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’m getting like a whole web of flavor that kind of brought me back to like some of the those like kind of ratitude moments that I experienced Well, I mean, I still feel like he like it sure is one of those guys kind of like John Glazer was a compass box like they’re just whiskey mad scientists.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they’re like, yeah, we got this liquid.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We got this liquid.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We got great liquid.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We got great bones.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What can we do with it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, today I’m going to fucking, you know, I’m going to put it in a red wine cask.

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[SPEAKER_01]: See what happened.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it’s damn.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to drop it in like, you know, I’m going to go from Sherry to Burburton.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s see what happens.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I’m going to keep you just like, whoa.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He’s like, oh, I’ve got this old imperial stout cask.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, let’s just empty it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I’m refilled it with whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bam, yeah, yeah, I got to say like, yeah, you know, that was my first like, I think it was a 2022 US edition that dropped and um, if that was the first time that I’d ever had like any kind of beer influenced whiskey like you know beer cask that that was like a a whole laundry list of like imperial stout cask

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[SPEAKER_00]: hobby, cider cask, a couple of different IPA casks, like a vatting of like nine different beer focused casks.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s what like, this is, to me, that was like, oh, this is fucking wild.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is like, you know, a natural wine lover’s whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, despite, I think like maybe purists would kind of look at that kind of behavior with whiskey and be like, Oh, but it’s distracting to the actual vision of the, of the, the multi-play.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, so yeah, we’ll find dining.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We’re, we’re all the single-mought, we’re finding dining.

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[SPEAKER_01]: These guys are doing like street food creations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are they doing?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I need to do that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had surfer it is like the, you know, the noisy pump band next door to the guys that are trying to do, you know, a very mainstream pot band, you know, it’s like, um, which, but also like, I like no marketing money, fine, with like none.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so like the, as people who are drinking Chichibu the last 10 years are like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: foreign fairies in the world of whiskey because they’re like, where do you ever see this stuff?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve never seen it, where can you get it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know, I don’t see it, I don’t know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What is this, you know, and they just like, yeah, no, it’s like a borderline cult following.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And till maybe the last two years, you know, where I think the import is done a really good job of just getting it out there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, 100% and like yeah, it was really cool because like, you know, I got in a little bit late obviously with, you know, the Chishy Booth phenomenon, but like, you know, going back in their catalog and you’re seeing all this kind of like, ganzo experiment, well, it’s hard to say experimentation.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There’s just really throwing things into different castes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know how experimental quote unquote that is, but they didn’t, like, they were doing this thing while still trying to find their voice of what would their

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what would their core product be?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What would their original bottling be?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s not the each rose-mountain grain world blend.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they’re kind of like tipping their toes into several different paths, or like wearing several different caps of the whiskey world.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But still at the same time, just paying this crazy attention to the quality, to, um, alter methods.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the quality of the arts and ship, you know, and like the old school methods, you know, going into floor multi and going into like, you know, wood, washbacks, no matter how controversial that might be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they’re their studios.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they’ve let a whole, like, they’ve opened the doors of this whole, like new collegiate school of modern, what I’d say modern Japanese whiskey is looking like.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, um,

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s something that never, that’s something that became obsessed more and more obsessed with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, there’s like the collector kind of like trading card, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

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[SPEAKER_01]: like there’s just there’s so many like this is like infinite like you it would just you know the but you know we’d call the black boxes like you just there’s so many different iterations already this is like 2016-17-18 it’s like there’s just no way and I’m like man I’ve already got like 60 of these like fuck I don’t think I’m like buying another hundred of them like nothing’s name like I’m gonna bail out and now I think like all those ghost series will like compared to now they were like free back then.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, you know, like the cards that are already popped, but the time I started looking at them, the cards were already, you know, 2000 plus per bottle, which, you know, was light compared to what they hit at their peak.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, eh, like I don’t know, like I’m 52 of these things, like I’m what really looking to put 100 and something grand into this, like, I don’t, you know, like that’s not that great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s been amazing seeing them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think with that growth, like I mentioned, like it just kind of inspired a whole new school of Japanese whiskey making that where it’s like it’s it’s more about the progress report at this point because you know a lot of those distillery started in like 2015 through 2017 and now we’re finally starting to see several iterations of their three to five years single months that they’re releasing usually they’re in cast strength or you know single cast expressions and and I think

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, chiefs, you know what they, what they really championed was like the power of the progress support.

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[SPEAKER_00]: People are interested in people are paying attention.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s kind of what these, um, newer, uh, dogs or even resurrected distilleries from like the 1950s that didn’t have their skin in the game at the time or maybe didn’t, maybe just contributed to blends are now understanding the power of

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[SPEAKER_00]: the progress support and the single cast release and sharing just these the the web of ideology of of what what’s this new identity of Japanese whiskey because the old guard you know or the more established guard of Santori Nika and even Fuji like they’re doing such phenomenal work and you know they they don’t have to you know disrupt their own reputation by doing these kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: very high energy expressions, but all to say, it has the world of Japanese whiskey, I just became like crazy obsessed with, and then it’s also like deepened my understanding and learning and loving of Scotch small, a Scotch single malt whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just, through exploration, you know, I think whiskey’s just become my most obsessed spirits category

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[SPEAKER_01]: and what Scotch Maltz, what single maltubin standing up to you in this journey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Single maltubin standing out, I mean you know, I’ve really taken a kid to, you know, the ardent-murkin, you know, I just got there in a deer cast release, which is really fun, really balanced.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love Glenn Alecky.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Glenn Alecky, 12, and they’re 13 mediricast, are always our mainstays at my house.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I’d say like, for me, like my flavor profile, my personal flavor choice, means towards climate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Those are like anything from the family tree of Johnny Walker, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so much so much, but yeah, those are what’s in my house lately.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Tomaten, Tomaten, Tomaten as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can’t really nail down a specific style.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like for me, my love language is really these independent botlers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just can’t, I can’t get enough of the Gordon McPhales and the Douglas and the Hunters and the Black Adders of the World because I love that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: cleanliness slashing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When I say cleanliness, it’s like, it hasn’t been touched.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there’s just no reason.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They can just like, early storage, bottle it and like, hey, it’s good to go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let’s go.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we didn’t have to do anything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s got a yield of 128 bottles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that’s it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, cool.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we don’t know where it’s going to be picked up globally.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s what’s going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m like, whoa, like, that’s crazy.

17:09.794 –> 17:28.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s really fun to see like, you know, like, especially with like, you know, the Scottish Malts whisky society or releases like our, you know, there’s just, these are like, these are statements like these are like, these are like, you know, not like age statements, but like, it’s like these whisky’s flavor profiles are making bold statements.

17:28.793 –> 17:37.202
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but by being is pure and not as, not as watered down for the original bottling for the masses, right?

17:37.182 –> 17:50.880
[SPEAKER_01]: So the joke I made recently was like, you know, Wagyu beef is on such a run, you know, like, it’s just, it’s on every menu now, it’s like, it’s like, Here we are, and truffles, if this is everywhere now, it’s no longer a delicacy, it’s just everywhere.

17:51.361 –> 17:56.688
[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike these independent ballas, to me, is like, hey, why is that Wagyu steak different?

17:56.708 –> 17:58.971
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re like, oh, that was an albino steak.

17:59.373 –> 18:06.707
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we could like that you know, that was a white like they could this so we couldn’t really like put it out the masses They’re like this is what we’re doing.

18:06.767 –> 18:21.634
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s like we’re just and I’m like oh my god like there’s something different here And they’re like well, you know that it’s just maybe you know the pigment What it does to the meat for the cows in the sun and then I’m just like I just taste some of these IBs and I’m just like holy shit holy shit This is insane

18:22.137 –> 18:34.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know, I know, it’s kind of, you know, it took me walking through, I guess, like, you know, exploring the fairly new history of Japanese whiskey by comparison.

18:34.371 –> 18:37.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it’s like, you know, it’s a, you know,

18:37.139 –> 19:03.400
[SPEAKER_00]: it’s the easiest starting point for me in terms of like the global whiskey forces that be Japanese whiskey is like one of the youngest of not the youngest you know like it and so using that as sort of like a a north star to get me into the very intimidating long-winded history of Scotch whiskey production and and producers you know I feel like I needed that to to deepen my love and respect for Scotch.

19:04.882 –> 19:08.219
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how fun was it you for you creating the downstairs bar?

19:09.063 –> 19:09.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh.

19:10.535 –> 19:11.356
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

19:11.376 –> 19:22.733
[SPEAKER_01]: The audience, tell me what, like, there’s the guys you come downstairs there and you come into this room and you just see Japanese, like, but Japanese, on Japanese, on Japanese, on Japanese, on Japanese, and more Japanese.

19:22.753 –> 19:26.919
[SPEAKER_01]: And more Japanese than you just, like, am I in fucking heaven, like, what’s going on here?

19:27.600 –> 19:31.526
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it’s just, it’s just like, it’s focused, you know?

19:31.586 –> 19:34.270
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s like, for me when I walk down there and like, I don’t want to leave this room.

19:34.330 –> 19:35.492
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I’m just gonna stay here.

19:35.572 –> 19:38.116
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, a longer, like, and, like, this is mind blowing.

19:38.156 –> 19:40.339
[SPEAKER_01]: How fun was that putting that together?

19:40.319 –> 19:45.795
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I owe a lot to my whiskey exposure and knowledge to building that program.

19:45.895 –> 19:49.485
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was always collectively decided that, you know,

19:49.887 –> 19:51.650
[SPEAKER_00]: This should be a Japanese whiskey temple.

19:52.212 –> 19:58.644
[SPEAKER_00]: And currently we have the largest selection of whisky from Japan in North America.

19:58.684 –> 20:08.964
[SPEAKER_00]: I specify whisky from Japan because of your from the barrels, for example, that have a bit of scotch in it, you know, your, yeah, or each year rose, world blend, for example.

20:09.044 –> 20:10.427
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.

20:10.407 –> 20:19.280
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say, as I mentioned earlier, I go where I can in terms of what I had access to and what the price point is.

20:19.300 –> 20:29.835
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was like, I was fortunate to be allowed to create this massive whiskey program with a higher price point.

20:29.855 –> 20:30.576
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have some

20:30.556 –> 20:34.300
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, dusty unicorn bottles, you know, behind the scenes that we’re selling.

20:34.321 –> 20:36.303
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a few of the card series that we’re selling.

20:37.444 –> 20:41.089
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have like several sensory owners casks as well.

20:41.950 –> 20:43.151
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it’s all perspective.

20:43.171 –> 20:45.554
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, the fun doesn’t even begin to explain.

20:45.574 –> 20:50.220
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s the coolest thing I’ll ever, you know, have had access to in my drinking life.

20:50.740 –> 20:52.002
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s me, honestly.

20:52.362 –> 20:55.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I, you know, I’ve never had access to this kind of stuff before.

20:55.185 –> 20:57.028
[SPEAKER_00]: And well, somebody’s got to write the tasting notes.

20:57.048 –> 20:59.010
[SPEAKER_00]: So I took the ability.

20:58.990 –> 21:06.180
[SPEAKER_01]: thing because like when I was in London a few weeks ago went to sexy fish and Zabs, you know, obviously got in the same selection over there.

21:06.200 –> 21:12.448
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of like, I was going through his whiskey list and I’m like, okay, I know what the gems are over here.

21:12.508 –> 21:15.452
[SPEAKER_01]: Like average Joe is going to walk in there and be like, oh, cool.

21:15.552 –> 21:17.775
[SPEAKER_01]: I’ll take a Yamazaki 25.

21:17.823 –> 21:23.177
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I’m like, oh, no, there’s like an older Nika barrel here, you know, like 1986.

21:23.799 –> 21:25.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that’s the one you want to have.

21:26.306 –> 21:26.767
[SPEAKER_01]: It happened.

21:26.928 –> 21:29.916
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s just like, and his, you know, his, his, his Chichibu’s there.

21:29.936 –> 21:31.099
[SPEAKER_01]: And I come with to your place.

21:31.159 –> 21:34.127
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m like, man, like, a guy like me.

21:34.107 –> 21:38.559
[SPEAKER_01]: or you, you know, going through that menu, like you could find the diamonds in there.

21:38.880 –> 21:49.990
[SPEAKER_01]: But to anyone else, it’s just what an amazing Japanese whiskey experience that you can just go or, you know, a Hibiki-30, you know, a Hakushu-25, you know, like it’s just like it’s insane.

21:50.628 –> 22:11.912
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the beauty of it is like because it’s such a large domineering, you know, election and part of like the visibility when you walk into the space like that, like, you know, even if like you have the people that, you know, wouldn’t really break out of their comfort zone of just like, you’re neither coffee, grain, or, uh, a B.C.

22:12.132 –> 22:12.393
[SPEAKER_00]: B.C.

22:12.433 –> 22:14.475
[SPEAKER_00]: harmony, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

22:14.455 –> 22:32.363
[SPEAKER_00]: you’re going to you’re going to put you’re going to either rekindle their love for those whiskeys right for that dining experience or you know I mean you’re going to say inevitably you’re going to sell more of those marks than you would normally if you didn’t have this wall of whisky kind of telling them.

22:32.343 –> 22:33.726
[SPEAKER_00]: shrink something Japanese.

22:34.107 –> 22:42.067
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, from a marketing and from a visibility standpoint, it works, it works several angles, but it’s, it’s, it’s cool.

22:42.107 –> 22:47.500
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I like you, I would just be totally happy never leaving that bar.

22:49.302 –> 22:56.130
[SPEAKER_00]: And sexy fish was a major, you know, I got to go there back and shoot like 20, 20.

22:56.470 –> 22:57.512
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think?

22:57.712 –> 23:05.841
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was, I was new about that program being such a, like, a massive whiskey collection.

23:05.981 –> 23:10.787
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I was very, very inspired by that menu for sure.

23:12.961 –> 23:15.305
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it’s mind blowing, I mean, kind of like yours.

23:15.786 –> 23:18.070
[SPEAKER_01]: So we’ve crushed almost 30 minutes of a year.

23:18.270 –> 23:20.554
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to the fun two questions now.

23:20.975 –> 23:30.611
[SPEAKER_01]: Good, I’m sure in your career, you’ve seen some pretty darn cool stuff and had some pretty cool experiences, but are there any experiences that stand out as like a pinch me moment?

23:30.631 –> 23:32.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you like, holy shit, I can’t believe I’m doing this?

23:33.869 –> 23:53.953
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one, it’s, you know, where you and I met was that, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, being able to create a venue where they would want to post this and then, you know, it, it brought me closer to the whiskey community, you know, I have, I have no.

23:53.933 –> 24:17.730
[SPEAKER_00]: trouble admitting I’m the new guy new kid on the block and you know I but but I love it just the same I’m I want to get to a point where I can you know have traveled through all these distilleries and have that experiential you know connectivity that a lot of a lot of people in the whiskey community currently have you know but I you know I

24:17.710 –> 24:23.938
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m still a cocktail guy, flavor guy first, and that’s kind of like my four-ray end to the whiskey world.

24:24.338 –> 24:37.795
[SPEAKER_00]: But so being able to host my favorite, you know, line of whiskeys from Japan, you know, at one of our venues, was that was my pinch-be moment.

24:37.977 –> 24:54.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, aside from that, you know, getting, as mentioned, getting access to like trying these bottles, you know, that we’re, we’re, you know, featuring on our menu, you know, like your carousel was, you know, your ghost of stillery unicorns, you know, the.

24:54.734 –> 25:22.885
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I got to say one if I had to pick one that like really just blew the top off my head like the there’s a carousel Like wine cask They’re they’re yeah rush cask series and you know Got one of those in and and tasting that as being a fan of you know some of the wine casks expressions that I’ve had through Scotch and through Japanese whiskey and Irish whiskey This was just like an ethereal

25:22.865 –> 25:35.933
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, your heads in the clouds, but it’s grounded at the same time and it’s, you know, it’s just like, you know, having having that kind of pallet experience was was just one of my favorites for sure.

25:36.053 –> 25:39.861
[SPEAKER_01]: I like I like to call those levels of whiskey bone broth.

25:39.841 –> 25:56.618
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s just sat there and sat there like a bone broth or a consummate like it just it just did its job like to a whole other level You know, you can tell you can tell the love that was put in the and the passion and the dedication and the sacrifices to make it

25:56.935 –> 26:09.047
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, and it’s like the historical journey of everything I know about, you know, my studies of the carries out at the stillary and what it’s going to be resurrected into, it’s just like you’re never going to have this ever again.

26:09.107 –> 26:12.390
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I love that you say bone, bone broth, beef consummate.

26:12.410 –> 26:16.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Like for me right now in New York City, we’re hitting like 18 degrees.

26:16.354 –> 26:17.935
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s our first like cold snap of the day.

26:18.356 –> 26:24.782
[SPEAKER_00]: So like it couldn’t be more bone broth to this moment of what I had with that whiskey.

26:25.741 –> 26:37.245
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, it’s wild, and like, so, you know, one more question that’s not a normal question I ask, but I don’t really often get to talk to people in your positions, but what are you seeing, like, as far as the consumer trends?

26:37.545 –> 26:41.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, are they still, I mean, I got a call this morning for work.

26:41.654 –> 26:42.775
[SPEAKER_01]: for my real job.

26:42.855 –> 26:52.207
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting because they were saying that they’re that the grocery business is seeing huge kits, kits because of ozampic and glmd ones.

26:52.607 –> 26:54.910
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, like people just aren’t buying as much food.

26:54.990 –> 26:58.935
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said the alcohol market is starting to get hit by the same reason.

26:58.955 –> 27:01.158
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m like shit, first it was Gen Z.

27:01.498 –> 27:08.927
[SPEAKER_01]: And now he’s got a fucking glp1, you know, like God, who’s safe anymore, other than the medical companies.

27:09.650 –> 27:36.113
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, I optimistically speaking, alcohol’s been here this long, you know, like I pinch or dent in just the the current culture of things and how they consume and and we’d notice this for the past over six months, some then use more so than others at the Gen Z conversation, you know, I’m not seeing so much of that directly and maybe maybe that’s because.

27:36.093 –> 27:55.156
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, we we maybe have a couple of restaurants in our group that that are a little bit more Gen Z centric than others, but honestly, what what does it clientele that it’s not oftentimes considered is like because of all the visibility and all the news and everything about how alcohol all the sun is not good for you anymore.

27:55.797 –> 27:57.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we never knew that.

27:57.899 –> 27:59.141
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it’s very good.

27:59.521 –> 28:00.362
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

28:00.342 –> 28:02.085
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we’re idiots told them, right?

28:02.185 –> 28:04.288
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are, there’s like an older generation.

28:04.308 –> 28:13.861
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a boomer-ish generation that are hitting, hitting pause on drinking as well because of that obvious health issues.

28:14.582 –> 28:16.365
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s what I’m seeing.

28:16.425 –> 28:19.870
[SPEAKER_00]: That sticks out a little bit more.

28:20.120 –> 28:25.367
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I wear that woop bracelet, you know, and I got to tell you now that I know everything.

28:25.928 –> 28:27.730
[SPEAKER_01]: You visibly about my body.

28:27.811 –> 28:32.417
[SPEAKER_01]: You can visibly see how bad it is to drink alcohol at night before you go to bed.

28:32.938 –> 28:36.563
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can see obviously how bad it is to eat food late at night.

28:36.583 –> 28:38.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can see it affects your sleep.

28:38.585 –> 28:41.209
[SPEAKER_01]: It affects the day drinking for some reason doesn’t.

28:41.690 –> 28:42.651
[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s like,

28:42.631 –> 28:54.450
[SPEAKER_01]: those those five hours before sleep if you can avoid anything bad you will get a good night’s sleep and sleep is the core foundation of everything but your body needs is the rest.

28:54.470 –> 28:59.138
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you’re fucking that up, you know, everything else is going to kind of follow, you know.

28:59.962 –> 29:05.371
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it’s like, even though I know what the right solution is, and I’m going to follow it.

29:05.732 –> 29:06.994
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not until it’s too late.

29:07.135 –> 29:07.555
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know.

29:07.796 –> 29:12.484
[SPEAKER_00]: I still I still have a drama three before, you know, an hour before bed.

29:12.524 –> 29:14.868
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it is hard to sleep.

29:15.449 –> 29:18.274
[SPEAKER_00]: How they’re investing their drinking time.

29:18.254 –> 29:21.920
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it’s not just, you know, I look at your downstairs bar, the Brian.

29:21.960 –> 29:26.508
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m like, if somebody comes in there, I’m going to, I’m going to doubt that they’re going to hold themselves back.

29:26.608 –> 29:30.254
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really created fucking candy land down there.

29:30.735 –> 29:31.837
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I look at that.

29:31.877 –> 29:42.675
[SPEAKER_01]: And I’m like, that consumer is like, let’s just say they might have spent $400 on whiskey, then now I’m going to spend either 500 or 350, but they’re not going to be like, oh, I’m just going to have one.

29:42.655 –> 29:56.267
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and that’s that I think that is the bonus of having something more premiumized is that, you know, it does capture that person who is looking to shoot their shop with one like really nice sip.

29:56.768 –> 30:03.474
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s it’s been fairly successful so far, you know, it’s not overwhelming by any means, but it’s there and it that, you know, we’ve been doing really well with it.

30:03.954 –> 30:06.957
[SPEAKER_00]: But, but yeah, I think selective drinking is is a thing.

30:07.037 –> 30:12.662
[SPEAKER_00]: People instead of doing five drinks

30:12.642 –> 30:20.745
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you capture that with something that’s a little more worthwhile, you know, I think Japanese whiskey is a great opportunity for that.

30:21.586 –> 30:29.158
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the uniqueness and honestly, we get about the price, but the value of the experience is so high and so not normal.

30:29.638 –> 30:39.914
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I look at some of these older Japanese expressions and any older whiskey, which I deem into, like, limited aka, it’s really an FU whiskey.

30:40.114 –> 30:42.578
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to be around all the time.

30:43.079 –> 30:46.564
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you see that opportunity, you’ve kind of just got a step into it.

30:47.017 –> 31:13.513
[SPEAKER_00]: of course of course and you know I think honestly one of the one of my favorite things about you know being exposed to such like old dusty bottles that you know command a high price more of these unicorn bottles that command a high price point is that it kind of helped me reevaluate or find find like really strong value in things that are like a fraction of the price so you know I’m able to kind of recommend things like hey you know you’re not going

31:13.493 –> 31:29.641
[SPEAKER_00]: the same sensation of this dusty bottle, but here are a few of the similar, here are a few similar flavor profiles that I can, I can tell you’re going to get in this particular poor for like one-sixteenth of the price, and I think it’s going to get you like in a happy place.

31:30.742 –> 31:32.245
[SPEAKER_00]: So there’s something for everybody, you know?

31:32.900 –> 31:40.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I listen, hey, do you want to give the socials of all the stuff, you know, up to including your own personal one?

31:40.096 –> 31:41.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how people can follow you?

31:41.540 –> 31:49.137
[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve really enjoyed this chat because like, the insight is that there’s great Japanese whiskey, there’s great whiskey.

31:49.117 –> 31:50.260
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s still here.

31:50.380 –> 32:08.020
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think now is the time really, you know, to not bring core whiskey and to kind of explore a little bit because like this is not going to be around when I say not around not that we know more Japanese whiskey, but there’s releases out there that are so limited like that’s just going to be it.

32:08.692 –> 32:09.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.

32:11.136 –> 32:13.038
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m like semi-active on there.

32:13.098 –> 32:14.240
[SPEAKER_00]: So please like reach out to me.

32:14.260 –> 32:15.322
[SPEAKER_00]: I love chatting.

32:15.362 –> 32:15.963
[SPEAKER_00]: I love learning.

32:16.924 –> 32:18.466
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you know, you’re absolutely right.

32:18.486 –> 32:21.110
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even the core things like you need a jumping off point.

32:21.130 –> 32:35.391
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the core thing, the core products, the OG, you know, the obese are like the Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Grat, Gr

32:35.371 –> 32:55.860
[SPEAKER_01]: what how these things started you know like I’m not really a fan of the it’s heroes basic stuff I just never I did not it’s okay so me I love it heroes it’s just it’s not my personal jam but like some of their just their entry level fun like even if you know it’s an on the way or something like it’s just it’s a unique take on great whiskey

32:55.840 –> 33:10.744
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, on the way is a great, wonderful starting point because that is, you know, less, you know, I would say less the dazzled with, you know, odd ball, uncharacteristic task, task finishes and expressions.

33:11.105 –> 33:18.858
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these are like, you know, the, I think the, the progress support of their vision has been on the way and it’s noted as that that’s the phrase.

33:18.918 –> 33:21.021
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s, we’re on the way there, like,

33:21.001 –> 33:31.044
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, with Mars, Mars whiskey, you know, anytime somebody’s like coming in asking, you know, for something within a little bit more of a reasonable price point, you know, Mars, oh my god, 100% exceptional.

33:31.124 –> 33:38.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, a lot of it is like, you know, kind of shares like a commonality like there’s Mars to new key this southern most

33:38.180 –> 33:57.707
[SPEAKER_00]: distillery that’s a little more tropical beachside, you know, there’s a lot of commonality with a lot of their expressions that I found in like, you know, Starward, Australian Whiskey, you know, where that’s like, it’s aged in, you know, conditions that, you know, essentially kind of cook the, cook the spirit and so like these really ripened flavors, but, um,

33:57.687 –> 34:07.260
[SPEAKER_00]: But so, there’s something to really appreciate is draws people in who are, you know, a little bit more cognizant about how much they’re spending with whiskey and what value they’re looking to get.

34:07.601 –> 34:08.702
[SPEAKER_00]: And there’s an untruthness.

34:08.722 –> 34:09.343
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a richness.

34:09.363 –> 34:15.912
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s, you know, three to four year old whiskeys that they’re doing that tastes like, you know, eight to ten year old whiskeys depending on what you’re looking at.

34:16.393 –> 34:27.188
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I always say, hey, Mars is like, one of your best, you know, it’s a, I hate to, you know, be reductive and call it the bargain bin, but, you know,

34:27.168 –> 34:56.314
[SPEAKER_00]: Even some of their stuff that’s like 29, 30 years old from their, you know, original distillation time, and like the 1984, 85 through 92, you know, a lot of that stuff has, you know, a lot of the, the hallmarks that people look for in these like vintage Macallons, you know, and it’s, it’s a, these are beautiful whiskeys that cost a fraction of the price and there’s still, you know, celebratory price points in my opinion, but, you know, for like,

34:56.294 –> 35:07.587
[SPEAKER_00]: you know a few hundred bucks you can you can really experience a ghost distillery a history like a historical moment in whiskey making that is that ages that his age extraordinarily well.

35:09.119 –> 35:10.922
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I a thousand percent agree.

35:10.962 –> 35:19.355
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think, you know, just the open mind in it, guys, like, do a little research before you drink your Japanese whiskey because it is a lot of faux Japanese whiskey out there.

35:19.395 –> 35:23.361
[SPEAKER_01]: And the moral of the story is like, it’s just great liquid and it’s so super unique.

35:23.401 –> 35:28.109
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you get it, you’re in New York, definitely go to the Chelsea hotel, go down there, go to any of the bars.

35:28.169 –> 35:33.557
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they’re great, but if you want Japanese, go down and say, the team and Brian, I would just a great program.

35:33.537 –> 35:36.041
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really, I can’t thank you enough for coming on, dude.

35:36.141 –> 35:38.545
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we had a couple of scheduleings and we got this handled.

35:38.925 –> 35:39.666
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, thank you.

35:39.686 –> 35:40.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, everyone, for listening.

35:41.008 –> 35:45.515
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to keep bringing you people that are passionate about whiskey, Brian is super passionate about it.

35:45.575 –> 35:47.238
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s these all real people.

35:47.458 –> 35:50.202
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I can’t thank everyone enough for listening to this podcast.

35:50.663 –> 35:52.406
[SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, thank you, everybody.

35:52.486 –> 35:54.449
[SPEAKER_01]: Brian, I’ll see you soon in New York, hopefully soon.

35:54.749 –> 35:56.552
[SPEAKER_01]: But thank you, everyone, for listening.

35:57.053 –> 35:57.874
[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s a wrap.