Investment Shifts, Cask Fraud, and Whiskey’s New Horizon

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[SPEAKER_01]: We’ll come back everybody to another fun edition of the Rolex Whiskey Passion Project.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Today I kind of want to jump into the investment side of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: going on in 11 years into investing in whiskey and markets kind of wild right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that I would be very cautious and optimistic at the same time if possible to be above.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have my producer Brasco on here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He’s done a couple of nice pieces of research and we’re just going to chat for the next 25, 30 minutes about you know, if you’re thinking of investing in whiskey is a

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, et cetera, et cetera.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Brass, welcome to the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate everything you do for me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, that’s chat some investment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know you pulled up some very interesting articles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks, Gavin, and I appreciate it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The little things last time we did this, uh, they might maybe some people were a little bit missed on the fact they had to pay an extra 10% for Irish whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now, oh, we come back and do an investment show and it just happens to be now you just get to pay the price for paying before funny funny funny.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that whole tariff thing with auction sites and that’s something I buy on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: the fee was on, the fee was off, you know, it’s like it’s all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Even, you know, when you buy from Europe, they still have like different shipping costs for EU versus London.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not, it’s not, it’s not fixed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it’s getting better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So just people need to be aware in terms of investments about what you’re buying and who you’re buying from because there was a group called Casc Experience Global Limited that paid almost a hundred million pounds or a hundred thousand pounds for whiskey casks that were never legally owned Do it gets issued in the name of a company that does not exist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So customer.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean the cast world is you know, I’m going through this right now with the group of fellow investors

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[SPEAKER_01]: moving some casks around and making sure they’re authentic because, you know, five years ago, everybody wanted to be the next, you know, Warren Buffett of Whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they were, you know, oh, I’m going to buy casks, so the task is to where it’s going to be on our bottom of the old whiskey.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, number one, the place in the drop significantly, the better one,

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s by barrels right now unless you just don’t care about money and you’re doing them to find I know a couple of guys that buy barrels of fun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They bottle them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have the best time So as far as investment, I don’t think we’ve seen the bottom yet because of the glitch and the overproduction That’s happened and there is less consumption I’m a tremendous amount less, but it is it’s still to be noted and I think unfortunately

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[SPEAKER_01]: with all these drink alternatives, non-alucing, CVD drinks, and people are just drinking less.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is what it is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there’s too much science out there that says, hey, alcohol is not the best thing for your body.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I would watch the cast, and unfortunately, people have been taking advantage of.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people get taken advantage of not only from the cast, but I’ve seen people get a bad taken advantage of buying collections.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And what they thought was a private client,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the way they also pulled this off on the people that they had, there were 17 customers that got part of this, and then we’re going all birdie made off of these people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: High pressure sales taxes to sell the casks and the promise of substantial returns and tax advantages, but the so do it gives authenticity to whatever they were given that show is proof invalid.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just like that movie, boiler room for stocks.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, I guarantee there’s a boiler room for every single alternative investment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A group of people that are up to absolutely no good whether they’re selling jewelry, art, whiskey, real estate, you know, they do these high pressure tactics.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody, unfortunately, you know what hasn’t changed?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody wants to get rich quick.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody has patience.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody, I had a guy, you know, messaged me the other day, he’s like, hey, watch that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m looking just to make 10% for the next 20 years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, should I be buying watches?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m like, he crazy?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there’s a million watches out there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the world doesn’t need another person selling watches.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I told him like, you know, I buy crypto with money that I can afford to buy crypto with.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I buy stocks all the whiskey I’ve been buying last two years for the most part is for drinking.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because the price of the whiskey are lower and that is great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you, I was on a call, you know, we had a call a few weeks ago with Eric and you was saying, if you’re a whiskey drinker now, like the best time ever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: because there’s so much available to you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you want to go outside of your current pallet, go to the auction, there’s plenty of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just, you know, unicorn auctions closed last night, I picked up two more centauri bottles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That were like at least 40% below, what they were a year ago, and probably 60% below what they were two years ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, who has a discussion will income for it right now anyway?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people like cross the board there, there’s maybe there’ll be inflation might be other things that people are not taking the, the scratch and all income to invest.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They’re kind of just hedging bets on something that’s tried and true right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Look, there’s different people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was just in Kentucky a few weeks ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a group of hundreds, strong hundreds.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We all obviously have very high discretionable.

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[SPEAKER_01]: spending, I believe I don’t believe these guys were spending on their credit cards.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know their financial situations, I don’t know their family situations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Will that mean to tell you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was no problem.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The money was flowing freely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: freely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I see the same thing at Hong Kong.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I see the same thing in London.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s money and people are still having a really, really good time with it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that as far as an investment, there’s just so much product.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that was on unicorn auction last night that closed that I went to a luncheon three weeks ago and that bottle was parts of the gift if you paid for the luncheon in the barbecue and that bottle went for eight hundred and ten dollars and the price of the tickets for the barbecue lunch was about two thirds of that

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[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody put it up, boom, sold, $810, no problem.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think people are saying, oh, the stuff at the top is having a hard time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the $80,000 bottle, if you look at all this big, how much clung that to be an asshole.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you look at all those big, McAllen bottles, they’re all way off the market.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Anything north of, I would say even $100,000.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would say even $80,000 is way off what it is,

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s insane what some of these bottles are getting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I forget what they were getting in their prime, but they’re still getting big numbers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They’re still are really, I think it’s a small group.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t think it’s a big group who are buying very old stuff because like my hats they make whisking great again, people are realizing that the old stuff is just money and you’re never going to get them again.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So for some reason, there’s totally fine spending a little extra on something vintage, then something new because they know the new one is going to be made so many of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I’ve said my investment strategy from day one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of whiskey do I buy?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I buy whiskey that was limited edition was opened before people realized there was money in it, and it’s popular enough that there’s lots and lots of buyers to buy it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You have no problem if I ever wanted to get rid of it, there’s hundreds of buyers that would take it, because they’re not $80,000, $100,000 all the bottles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where you’re fighting for the five people in the world that buy those things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think now, if you come up with a strategy, like I always recommend verticals.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of these brands, some of these brands make it really easy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, it’s just an easy example to give.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The calendar really will say, do like one through six.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have all six, you might actually have a chance of getting a decent return of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s people like to buy collections.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s like baseball cards, football cards, all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They like to buy sets.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would look at that if you’re missing anything in your sets, or if you’re really, really want to become a person, pick a lane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Be like, hey, I’m just going to buy, make just 20s.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to try to buy as many as I can.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to be only in

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but pick a lane, don’t get all over the place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That’s my advice right now because the price is off pretty spectacular.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask one more thing based on the story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There’s bring up a more point to the story that was very peculiar and I was in question about it because one customer was told this cast was stored at a bottom warehouse in Scotland.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when he checked, little due diligence for this guy, the warehouse denied any connections in the company.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I know that you talk about all your needs to options are going to events and you’re buying.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But are there any conditions where you would buy where you don’t see the cast or bottle?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I’m too honest, the three cats that I have equity, and I’ve never seen them, but I’ve seen the paperwork on them, like a lie, you know, like it seems like everything’s legit because I’m sharing the expense amongst others.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn’t keep me up at night.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How about that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like it could be, but like if you were like actually going going home and dropping hundreds of thousands, holy shit, I’d be at that door touching each one of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was just wondering, there’s a part where, for the audience out there, if they are potentially hard.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How do you, how do you determine how do you filter out?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s really hard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It’s really, really, really challenging, even auctions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They do a pretty good job of, you know, weeding out the fakes, but like the fakes still happen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s a sad place in the world where, like, people make money.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s always these predators that make it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and they’re not gonna go anywhere.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s a thriving business that’s been doing it in wine and using about that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They do it with everything, everything, you know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Just go ahead and do it with the bottle.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, everything’s 2026 allows you also to see every facet of the bottle.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could get the pictures, you could do everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You could probably order it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s like, it’s really sad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And some of these brands, like Buffalo Trace, Zaraq, you know, they put RF codes now on the new stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: whether that helps or not, I really don’t know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Guess so, in the future.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think now, it’s just a wild time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you should really, if you’re gonna be investing, just have a plan, do not just roll so soon.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there’s no more slipping shit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Don’t stand in line at times the hospital, to buy X whiskey, because X whiskey’s gonna be in every grocery store too, within a week.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s just, if anything, the brain market is real and right now, because there were guys that were making money on the shit, and now it’s, they don’t make it in the money, they might have to go to work.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So now this way I wanted to bring up to you is there was a story that came out about how the Scotch whiskey mark has been going through multi-production cycles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a common thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when it comes to the goals that are trying to create inventory, they’re seeing that as you were talking about, there might be some people through getting less alcohol.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So demand is softening and distilleries are cutting output to predict margins and avoid excess stock.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, you know, it’s, I don’t know, you know, me over these years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I talk in like food analogies, um, I think that think of like a, like a food and wine show and, you know, in, in 2022 after COVID was really done and, you know, 10,000 people showed up to the food and wine show and they said, oh my god, that was more than we expected.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We sold out a food.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We got to fix this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they went to put a fix in and what’s fixed?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You increase the output, you know?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then did they factor in in 2026?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So many people were going to be in a GLP-1 and not eating.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they’re not going to a food shop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We’re not like 50 people signed up for this thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they’re like, wait, like, we have too much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the same thing happened in Whiskey, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, oh my god, this isn’t saying.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, Whiskey has to really steer the ship.

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[SPEAKER_01]: very tightly, so these decisions were made in like 2016-17 and 18, you know, when this whole party really started, which was like around 2000 and big world, you know, because everybody that’s ever been on this podcast, you know, we talk about that end of 2000, we’re treating the beginning of 2015, we’re all in a sudden, I think, shit that flows.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you were to look at if you were a whiskey producer, you’re like, oh my god, I could make 400 cases.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve only been making a hundred, and this keeps coming, so they started making 400, 400, 400.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That’s where in 2026, you know, you got 10,000 more cases, then you need it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously I’m using silly numbers, but I’m just identifying, you have more cases than beats the man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And now what he did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So now you’ve got to lay off people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all these big brands are laying off people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: they’re cutting down, they’re only making whiskey a few days a week, you know, it’s kind of a scary time because it was a false hope and, you know, unfortunately, when there’s money on the table, people like to go for it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, here we are, and every grocery store, grocery store is full to the brim, every liquor store is full to the brim.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Every auction house

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don’t know why I’m giving unicorn auction so much love, but it’s funny because he just did this private collection from Japan, you know, that this guy finally decided he saw it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, it was a ton of bourbon, like limited release bourbon, these things are getting 11, 12, 15, 20,000 dollars a bottle, you know, because this one’s no problem moving these things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: None whatsoever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the bourbon market has a way

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[SPEAKER_01]: stronger following for the high-end stuff than the Scotch whiskey or even Japanese because once again you just have a first of all there’s a million Scotch whiskeys so it’s like you can’t really pick your poison where you’re going to go for you could but like you know it’s a lot bourbon’s a little tighter where there’s less but now you have all the huge independent bottling coming out of the bourbon world and it’s being

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[SPEAKER_01]: You’re talking to bottles sub 200, sub 300.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They’re gone, sold out, gone, sold out, gone, sold out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that this is what’s happening right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those are barrels that people sat on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They got good deals.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They know what they’re doing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they’re putting great product out there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the whiskey that’s out there right now, he’s in the pen and the bottleings, is some of the best whiskey that you’re going to see.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Two drink them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s too many of them to start collecting them

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[SPEAKER_01]: like why like there’s no market for that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There’s just too many.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if funny how you talk about what it comes to the food and the fact that that’s was reading about in Vegas, how there’s so many less buffet restaurants, so much higher costs and ever now for food.

16:07.710 –> 16:11.052
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the whole appeal of that is gone because the margins don’t matter.

16:11.913 –> 16:13.134
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m also interested in the fact that

16:13.674 –> 16:23.218
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there wasn’t even, not even like 10 of the years ago, I would still find some spirits manufacturers that would allow some tastings of new products.

16:23.518 –> 16:28.821
[SPEAKER_00]: And I’m wondering if the needs to be something that has to come back again, where, you know, that maybe that becomes a thing where you have.

16:29.321 –> 16:33.242
[SPEAKER_00]: certain bottles that, you know, you kind of create a celebration out of it.

16:33.342 –> 16:40.044
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here’s something mature, 12, 15, 20 year bottle, and we’re going to do a big event about it, and everybody’s going to get a taste of it.

16:40.184 –> 16:44.385
[SPEAKER_00]: And there’s a way just as a barrier to entry to get some younger consumers back into it.

16:44.966 –> 16:45.486
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.

16:45.706 –> 16:47.446
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, Asia does it really well.

16:48.026 –> 16:49.887
[SPEAKER_01]: They do shows where you pay by the poor.

16:51.072 –> 17:12.018
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah and these things are packed and you you can go around and you’d like all right no I want to spend forty dollars on a poor I want to spend eight dollars on a poor I want to spend four thousand dollars on a poor and you can try stuff in America they generally when they do these shows it’s always the core line it’s hard to sample out the high-end stuff because it’s gone so quickly people on stupid

17:12.628 –> 17:33.625
[SPEAKER_01]: You know like they they know they know what the good stuff is and they’ll line up to that I mean back in the day, you know, if you went to a whiskey show and they were pouring happy than usual, they had to have a security guard and like it’s tension, it’s velvet ropes, it’s people in line and people would win a line until all those bottles were dead before they moved to try anything else.

17:35.062 –> 17:36.143
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that’s how crazy it is.

17:36.563 –> 17:39.084
[SPEAKER_01]: I was at a show where mix is poor to mix is 20.

17:39.664 –> 17:45.507
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Raven poured the whole bottle out of 22 minutes at a fancy show, 20 minutes.

17:45.947 –> 17:46.928
[SPEAKER_01]: Luxury bottle gone.

17:48.589 –> 17:55.172
[SPEAKER_01]: So the problem that is now, now, I will ask him, hopefully if he looks, I went to the amazing wine dinner.

17:55.985 –> 18:10.450
[SPEAKER_01]: and they did a bottle share afterwards for everybody brought a cool bottle and it had to be, I don’t know, the actual number, but I would say the bottle had to be worth more than $400, and it was insane what these guys were sharing.

18:10.991 –> 18:12.491
[SPEAKER_01]: But you couldn’t get those bottles.

18:13.191 –> 18:18.753
[SPEAKER_01]: At least some of them were absolutely unicorns and it was amazing that these guys were sharing it with people.

18:19.894 –> 18:23.115
[SPEAKER_01]: So that to me was super cool, but like in scratch whiskey I’ve never seen that.

18:24.202 –> 18:25.583
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I’ve seen pay by the poor.

18:26.083 –> 18:27.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I’ve seen amazing taste things.

18:27.424 –> 18:32.868
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that distilleries now are very much alive for tourism.

18:33.809 –> 18:37.511
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you are going to get a lot more distillery business.

18:38.091 –> 18:43.555
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think two years ago, we had Blockbar on the show.

18:44.216 –> 18:47.858
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had one of the guys from William Grant.

18:48.559 –> 18:50.420
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was saying that, you know, for a million years,

18:53.392 –> 19:07.516
[SPEAKER_01]: in duty free, like it was available in restaurants and bars, like it was available in liquor stores, like it was available in grocery stores, but those were like really the channels, you know, you couldn’t sell it online because of the three tier system.

19:08.056 –> 19:17.138
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you can sell it online, you know, like they have people that you can buy it from, you know, and deliver to you, you know, reserve bars that are really good job of that.

19:19.666 –> 19:29.073
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it’s the real angle where, hey, if you can go to the disciller, like actually go and get an appointment and do a tour, then they have the bottles for sale.

19:29.594 –> 19:33.657
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this has become a new vacation for a lot of people.

19:33.937 –> 19:34.758
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just men.

19:35.318 –> 19:38.441
[SPEAKER_01]: I see couples, you know, I don’t see too many groups of women.

19:39.301 –> 19:42.023
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, I do see a lot of women there because they’re with their husband.

19:42.043 –> 19:47.808
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was in Kentucky, we were at two distilleries and like, they were turned to older husbands and wives.

19:48.570 –> 19:50.792
[SPEAKER_01]: coming in there to try if you’ve done their research.

19:51.832 –> 19:58.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that the on-brand stuff with distilleries, that revenue has to increase tremendously.

19:59.298 –> 20:02.840
[SPEAKER_01]: And it’s become a thing, whereas it never used to be like that.

20:02.880 –> 20:04.041
[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn’t get into these things.

20:04.061 –> 20:05.242
[SPEAKER_01]: They were closed distilleries.

20:06.183 –> 20:09.205
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone now is trying to beat the tourist drum, and they should.

20:09.846 –> 20:10.766
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great for everybody.

20:10.806 –> 20:11.787
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s great for the economy.

20:11.827 –> 20:13.308
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s great for the surrounding areas.

20:13.408 –> 20:14.489
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it works really well.

20:15.563 –> 20:27.350
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they can’t tuck you bourbon trail, there’s a gentleman I follow on Instagram, I forget his name, but he’s not gone to every single bourbon tour in Kentucky and he like raped them.

20:27.410 –> 20:31.672
[SPEAKER_01]: He’s like, you know, if you’re going to be in town for two days, you know, these are the eight you have to see.

20:31.692 –> 20:34.354
[SPEAKER_01]: If you’re going to be in town for a whole week, these are the 20 you have to see.

20:34.994 –> 20:36.655
[SPEAKER_01]: And stuff like that, I’m like, never used to be like that.

20:36.675 –> 20:44.019
[SPEAKER_01]: When I say never, 10 years ago, man, you were lucky if they were like 20 total distilleries you could visit.

20:46.647 –> 20:49.291
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, everyone’s got action, everyone’s health swag.

20:49.791 –> 20:50.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has taste things.

20:51.494 –> 20:52.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has bottles to sell.

20:53.036 –> 20:55.760
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has multi-tiered tastings.

20:56.441 –> 21:00.967
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have, you know, affordable pricing, medium pricing, luxury pricing.

21:03.714 –> 21:23.538
[SPEAKER_00]: It’s a thing it’s funny where we’re you talking about when it comes to an Asian like Japan on my TikTok feed every so often You see a lampooned or a real legit people that are like Some of the best that they’re making drinks and here comes the fire show here comes the speed of the ice and the drinks and the oh That’s like Samurai looking kind of thing that looks great.

21:23.558 –> 21:23.778
[SPEAKER_00]: I’m like.

21:23.798 –> 21:26.059
[SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know why don’t we have that here But of course

21:28.713 –> 21:33.798
[SPEAKER_01]: You do, they are a couple of, especially in New York, send a good job, Chicago, is that a good job?

21:34.219 –> 21:37.442
[SPEAKER_01]: There’s some insane cocktail program, but actually it was the first one.

21:38.523 –> 21:39.864
[SPEAKER_01]: They did it to a whole other level.

21:40.044 –> 21:50.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Asia’s Singapore, Hong Kong Singapore, the Macau, like, I follow some crazy cocktail guys, like, whoa, but they do exist over here.

21:51.239 –> 21:54.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it’s just not as much relevance on what the liquid is.

21:54.141 –> 21:56.542
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s more in the flavor and the experience.

21:56.962 –> 21:57.202
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

21:57.462 –> 22:07.648
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like that that’s that the creativity is like next level for that, but like that doesn’t from the investments standpoint like it doesn’t cross if that makes sense.

22:08.028 –> 22:15.392
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it’s just like I just think right now like right now is just an interesting time, you know, I buy every week still for most weeks.

22:16.016 –> 22:24.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but like I said, I’m buying mostly drinkers every now and again, I’ll buy something that I’m like, hmm, that’s a good deal, but I have so much, and I don’t think the bottom is in.

22:25.500 –> 22:26.840
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m sorry to tell everyone this thing.

22:27.361 –> 22:28.661
[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t think we’ve hit the bottom yet.

22:28.761 –> 22:33.203
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we’re in this like reared spending space still.

22:33.983 –> 22:35.664
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that doesn’t line up with income.

22:36.464 –> 22:38.345
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people are spending more than they make.

22:38.885 –> 22:45.228
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that anchor has to drop and then there will be some absolutely amazing prices.

22:46.167 –> 22:51.730
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it could be the great white, but I am definitely the great white circling and waiting for the blood.

22:52.470 –> 23:05.377
[SPEAKER_00]: So I’m curious about what happens now with the Scotch whisky disorders because the idea is that, okay, if they are going to do some tweaking to inventory that they’re saying about spirit not distilled now will not simply exist in 10 to 15 years.

23:05.777 –> 23:10.260
[SPEAKER_00]: A surplus of younger stock does not automatically translate into an abundance of mature whisky later.

23:11.235 –> 23:24.162
[SPEAKER_00]: And that there’s a really it’s like having to play that field of like, okay, you want to have mature risky at a certain point, but you also can’t cut production so much so that you don’t have that higher price mature whiskey available to buy.

23:25.258 –> 23:26.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, that’s the whole thing.

23:26.818 –> 23:35.581
[SPEAKER_01]: And like this, we’ve never seen more 40 year old, 50 year old, 60 year old, 65 year old, 72 year old, 70, 80 year olds.

23:36.321 –> 23:39.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Belvaney just released the 88 year old as the oldest whiskey.

23:40.062 –> 23:41.383
[SPEAKER_01]: She’ll like, you know, where are we going here?

23:41.623 –> 23:43.183
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there’s 100 coming next.

23:43.783 –> 23:44.804
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s sitting in a warehouse.

23:45.144 –> 23:45.664
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that.

23:46.464 –> 23:48.605
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this 100 year old whiskey laying around.

23:48.725 –> 23:49.745
[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know if it tastes good.

23:49.765 –> 23:51.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know what they’re gonna have to do to it.

23:53.507 –> 23:57.289
[SPEAKER_01]: but you will see a hundred-year-old whiskey for sure in the next five years.

23:58.689 –> 24:10.494
[SPEAKER_01]: But if going back to your question, you know, they made money in getting the stuff out of like the 10, the 12, the 17, 18, the 21, everything above them becomes like a luxury item.

24:11.614 –> 24:15.336
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and just think about that, that’s a process.

24:15.996 –> 24:18.797
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there’s not much cheating you can do to

24:21.827 –> 24:23.269
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that’s legit.

24:23.309 –> 24:29.115
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, of course, there’s people that do all kind of stuff, but it’s almost cheating that you could do to agents.

24:29.135 –> 24:30.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you just have to have time.

24:31.158 –> 24:40.028
[SPEAKER_01]: So like I look at, I look at what they just bottled in the last three years and I’m wondering if now they’re kicking themselves going like shit, we should let some of the agents longer.

24:41.129 –> 24:41.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, maybe not.

24:42.883 –> 24:53.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I meant to ask you, because I saw this about a month ago, would you ever swap out one of your bottles to get your hands on the bottle of Guinness extra stout that’s never been opened?

24:53.871 –> 24:56.933
[SPEAKER_00]: It was found on a shipwreck boat off the coast of England.

25:07.163 –> 25:13.668
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, oh my god, like I want to try that, you know, I, you know, there was a gentleman that used to live in America, he lives in Israel right now.

25:14.169 –> 25:19.313
[SPEAKER_01]: And I asked him, we had a Joe Hyman, when Joe was on the show, we asked Joe, you know, how do you verify these things?

25:19.333 –> 25:30.042
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have to put like a crazy needle in there and pull out a little bit of liquid, you know, to verify and run through tests that this really is at six year olds, seven year olds.

25:30.462 –> 25:32.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And you told him about a person that’s just,

25:33.147 –> 25:34.448
[SPEAKER_01]: really at a high level.

25:34.568 –> 25:36.708
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, a brand that doesn’t have a name.

25:37.189 –> 25:40.890
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, when the young as I can just be five year old came out, it was sold out immediately.

25:41.670 –> 25:44.171
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it just never, it was gone everywhere.

25:44.652 –> 25:45.452
[SPEAKER_01]: And that’s 55 year.

25:45.572 –> 25:47.393
[SPEAKER_01]: But that’s, that’s, that’s some story.

25:47.853 –> 25:48.813
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s a huge name.

25:48.833 –> 25:50.894
[SPEAKER_01]: If people know that that’s going to be insane.

25:51.714 –> 25:54.775
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this Bellvania 88 year, it’s super limited.

25:55.476 –> 25:57.597
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably all gone to private clients already.

25:58.137 –> 25:58.537
[SPEAKER_01]: All gone.

25:59.499 –> 26:03.402
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of these other guys, they go release hundreds of bottles of vintage whiskey.

26:04.123 –> 26:06.124
[SPEAKER_01]: There’s not hundreds of buyers for this stuff anymore.

26:06.545 –> 26:09.307
[SPEAKER_01]: There’s just isn’t it?

26:09.327 –> 26:17.714
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you did make your reference to Pepey then week a little bit earlier, which is like, you know, if you’re doing the drinking game with Gavin show, you might be able to get a lease a shot or two and then every time you take a bite.

26:17.854 –> 26:18.474
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

26:19.315 –> 26:20.276
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Johnny Walker Black.

26:20.840 –> 26:21.480
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it doesn’t work.

26:21.501 –> 26:22.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, it doesn’t work.

26:22.421 –> 26:24.523
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, and the half of the patents still sell.

26:24.823 –> 26:25.343
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re gone.

26:25.784 –> 26:27.365
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I’m saying?

26:27.405 –> 26:28.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a London.

26:28.505 –> 26:30.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I probably got it on this year.

26:30.427 –> 26:32.228
[SPEAKER_00]: 30% and 2026 just see you know.

26:32.909 –> 26:34.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, every one of them prices are done.

26:34.310 –> 26:35.630
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they’re called for fuel enough.

26:35.871 –> 26:37.632
[SPEAKER_01]: They’re going to transform what this stuff around.

26:37.652 –> 26:39.853
[SPEAKER_01]: They ever went up, you know?

26:40.354 –> 26:42.635
[SPEAKER_01]: You have, you have what do you call it inflation?

26:42.896 –> 26:44.076
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s spending increases.

26:44.096 –> 26:50.321
[SPEAKER_01]: You’ve got to, you know, give your people three to five percent, you know, increases and wages every year for the last four years.

26:51.055 –> 26:53.480
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it’s not going to be transferred over somewhere.

26:54.442 –> 26:54.663
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

26:55.257 –> 26:56.918
[SPEAKER_00]: So just give the heads up.

26:56.938 –> 27:05.802
[SPEAKER_00]: They’re talking about this here that the Van Winkle family and all, they were talking about their collection that a 23-year-old bottle is about 500 bucks on average now these days.

27:06.782 –> 27:08.303
[SPEAKER_01]: And where?

27:08.323 –> 27:10.043
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that’s what you should be able to buy from it.

27:10.063 –> 27:10.504
[SPEAKER_01]: You can’t.

27:11.044 –> 27:11.484
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.

27:11.784 –> 27:12.224
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

27:12.264 –> 27:14.205
[SPEAKER_01]: So it’ll be 2003,000 for the 23.

27:14.365 –> 27:24.010
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a lottery recently in February where almost 60,000 people entered in Virginia to buy 46 bottles of the family reserve 15-year-old bourbon.

27:25.899 –> 27:26.759
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of them.

27:27.459 –> 27:42.462
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this sounds, I mean, people, because there’s money in it, you can buy it, if you can buy it, if you can buy it, have you 23 or 500 bucks, you pretty much guarantee yourself, $1,500 profit, you know, instant payments there, you know, but the game’s changed.

27:42.482 –> 27:53.404
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re talking about this, like everybody in the store now knows, everybody in the internet now knows, you know, I got a Costco, and if they’re doing a whiskey release, there’s a line of 30 people outside.

27:54.094 –> 27:59.996
[SPEAKER_01]: And they’re all just going to walk into a liquor store and sell it afterwards, make them money, instantaneously.

28:01.857 –> 28:14.082
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you trying to how much, so we have inflation to come to a consumer prices, but the, but the, or are you surprised how much whiskey could be more and much more inflated than it is, regular stuff, because US could be on the prices.

28:14.102 –> 28:15.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Much the price anymore.

28:15.162 –> 28:15.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can see it.

28:16.423 –> 28:16.983
[SPEAKER_00]: And that’s 110%.

28:17.023 –> 28:21.565
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when they look at Wagyu State, we can carry on.

28:22.187 –> 28:28.570
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, look at anything left here, you know, you go for dinners now, you know, you go, you go by groceries, everything’s up.

28:28.590 –> 28:31.431
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I’m not surprised by any of that.

28:31.451 –> 28:35.612
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, back to the investment from, I just, you know, what are you real saying?

28:36.573 –> 28:38.894
[SPEAKER_01]: I, my investment has a low cost basis.

28:39.494 –> 28:44.276
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, I would have sold it three years ago, the profit would go on fire, but that wasn’t my plan.

28:44.876 –> 28:46.116
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still believe that I own

28:50.938 –> 28:58.545
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you’re going to go down this rabbit hole of buying for investment, then make sure whatever you’re buying can stand up to that test.

28:59.285 –> 29:00.526
[SPEAKER_01]: Like watch the auctions.

29:01.207 –> 29:05.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch the European auction and watch the Americans watching and watch the prices.

29:05.631 –> 29:09.514
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all of them now have a really good chart on them.

29:10.156 –> 29:12.378
[SPEAKER_01]: So unicorn and scoffice to your auctions.

29:13.058 –> 29:15.780
[SPEAKER_01]: If you click on a bottle, it will show you the price relaxation.

29:15.860 –> 29:16.780
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s like stock eggs.

29:17.141 –> 29:19.843
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, stock eggs when my bike sneaks it, they’re like, oh, that’s Jordan.

29:20.323 –> 29:22.404
[SPEAKER_01]: There’s usually two grand, now it’s 500 bucks.

29:23.265 –> 29:24.566
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, watch that stuff.

29:24.966 –> 29:33.392
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I’m not saying the Jordan is going to get back up to two grand, but shit, if it’s 500 now, when things change, maybe it goes up to 1200.

29:35.030 –> 29:43.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, watch do the same on whiskey, look at the charts and see the old time ties and then look at it, look at where it’s going, is it hit the bottom yet?

29:44.132 –> 29:49.854
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s moving up because the demand for those limited whiskey is really often changed.

29:50.594 –> 29:52.635
[SPEAKER_01]: And now it just takes longer to finish the bottle.

29:52.915 –> 29:53.255
[SPEAKER_01]: That’s all.

29:53.815 –> 30:03.818
[SPEAKER_01]: So the guy who wants another bottle of Bellvania 30 or Bellvania 40 or a Glenn Phiddic 40, he’s probably still drinking that one because he’s just drinking a lot slower than

30:07.584 –> 30:12.846
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to ask, you know, one last story where it would cook a new distinction in the UK.

30:13.046 –> 30:20.748
[SPEAKER_00]: So English whiskey spelled with a K E Y or K Y, they’re now included in the geographical indication.

30:21.628 –> 30:26.849
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s a geographical indication that’s been approved now.

30:27.689 –> 30:30.530
[SPEAKER_00]: So is there anything there where you feel like okay,

30:31.400 –> 30:40.723
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to get there’s obviously companies I want to come in board with Scotch Welsh Irish whiskey’s Also put into this into English trying to go and jump on the bandwagon.

30:41.183 –> 30:49.586
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know if I need the storage up there that might, you know, But I mean you just written America America makes a single vault in every season that.

30:49.866 –> 30:53.948
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, Well, sure do that in Europe to grow up with how you want to do it there.

30:54.681 –> 31:03.023
[SPEAKER_00]: There’s also an increase in the stilleries up to 70 the stilleries right now producing English whiskey that’s up in the last three years from 46 to 70 now.

31:04.403 –> 31:05.184
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, why not?

31:05.344 –> 31:06.444
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not sell your own product?

31:06.984 –> 31:07.244
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not?

31:07.404 –> 31:12.505
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you just remember like all of these systems are designed around taxes to be collected.

31:13.385 –> 31:15.006
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there’s all kinds of incentives.

31:15.106 –> 31:15.426
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

31:15.973 –> 31:26.739
[SPEAKER_01]: You got grain, you got water, you got a location, you got, I mean there’s more distillers out there than there’s ever been and they’re young and they’re fun and they’re chasing and then there’s the old guys that are still killing it.

31:27.499 –> 31:35.423
[SPEAKER_01]: You know Richard Patterson just celebrated 60 years on the job, you know for the same, 60 years of making whiskey, 60 years.

31:37.084 –> 31:43.868
[SPEAKER_00]: The application says also there’s two subcategories, mall English or grain English and they be single or blended.

31:46.929 –> 31:47.469
[SPEAKER_00]: This is coming.

31:47.730 –> 31:49.431
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, you’re going to see a lot more.

31:50.251 –> 31:53.553
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to see smaller bottles.

31:54.734 –> 31:58.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Make 375s or 350s and not 750s.

31:58.516 –> 32:03.179
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people can actually finish the bottles quicker, and you get a better price for this.

32:05.681 –> 32:06.642
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be my advice.

32:06.702 –> 32:10.964
[SPEAKER_01]: Like our stuff urban company has a really good job of smaller bottles.

32:12.005 –> 32:14.947
[SPEAKER_01]: And smaller bottles means lower barrier to entry.

32:15.899 –> 32:18.860
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, you finished the bottle when you go get another one.

32:19.080 –> 32:21.441
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, staring at these open giant bottles.

32:22.281 –> 32:24.701
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I’m about to do a cleansing of open bottles.

32:26.502 –> 32:29.023
[SPEAKER_01]: Neighbors kids, like 21-years-old, and I do.

32:29.043 –> 32:33.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to cleanse a lot of bottles that have been open, that I haven’t touched, so I never will touch.

32:33.904 –> 32:37.145
[SPEAKER_01]: Come over and take them, because I want to open up new ones that will.

32:38.585 –> 32:38.825
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

32:38.905 –> 32:40.206
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can’t open up right now.

32:40.226 –> 32:41.386
[SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to space like a 100-open bottle.

32:46.363 –> 32:47.724
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we need not tasting.

32:47.804 –> 32:52.208
[SPEAKER_00]: We definitely need a more of, uh, and yeah, those open bottles is just let’s make that recommendation.

32:52.228 –> 32:57.433
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it get more if you got open bottles sitting around and you can get somebody to get somebody.

32:58.013 –> 32:58.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Don’t let it sit there anymore.

32:59.014 –> 32:59.775
[SPEAKER_01]: You’re not drinking.

32:59.815 –> 33:00.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Give it to someone.

33:00.455 –> 33:00.956
[SPEAKER_01]: Make a friend.

33:01.742 –> 33:08.866
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we each had to get, we need to get these kids involved when I say kids obviously over the age of 21 or whatever, you go drinking age of the country.

33:09.386 –> 33:10.507
[SPEAKER_01]: But they get them involved.

33:10.547 –> 33:11.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, try this.

33:11.307 –> 33:11.807
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, try that.

33:12.228 –> 33:13.128
[SPEAKER_01]: It’s not, I’m going to give a shit.

33:13.168 –> 33:14.789
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I’ve had, I’m done with it.

33:15.189 –> 33:16.910
[SPEAKER_01]: No value keeping it open in my house.

33:18.031 –> 33:20.372
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think we did a good job here.

33:20.392 –> 33:23.734
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the moral of the story, guys investing is incredibly tough right now.

33:23.994 –> 33:25.875
[SPEAKER_01]: There are lots of deals, but you got to have to play

33:30.744 –> 33:34.065
[SPEAKER_01]: you’re going to be buying a bunch of random shit and nothing’s going to happen.

33:34.505 –> 33:38.387
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we wanted to kind of just do an episode on investing because we haven’t done one in a while.

33:38.587 –> 33:39.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Brad.

33:39.107 –> 33:39.928
[SPEAKER_01]: We’re putting this together.

33:39.948 –> 33:41.168
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, everyone, for listening.

33:41.188 –> 33:47.971
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s been a fun couple of years doing these podcasts and talking about whiskey and what whiskey does.

33:47.991 –> 33:52.612
[SPEAKER_01]: We’ve got some great more guests, plenty more guests coming through a whole passion about whiskey.

33:52.632 –> 33:56.154
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I can’t thank you all enough for listening and supporting us over the years.

33:57.497 –> 34:03.341
[SPEAKER_01]: People is good, keep breathing, love the feedback, and breast protection being a great producer these last few years.

34:03.741 –> 34:05.222
[SPEAKER_00]: Always, man, always have doing it.

34:05.603 –> 34:07.504
[SPEAKER_00]: Peace out, and we’ll talk to everyone soon.

34:07.764 –> 34:08.605
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a wrap.